Grace in the Warfare

In this offline conversation, Wanda Alger and several other YouTubers talk about the spiritual warfare involved when answering a call to the front lines of battle. Supernatural grace is available when we battle the way that God intends, but we must prepare for the cost. In this 32-minute video, they discuss the best ways to do that.

Wanda Alger is an ordained and commissioned fivefold leader who has been in ministry for more than 35 years and is passionate about interpreting life from Heaven’s perspective. She is called to speak to the Body of Christ about the mountain of government, godly leadership, and Kingdom authority. Her blogs, videos, books, and other resources are available at wandaalger.me.

Editor’s Note: The transcript that follows was automatically generated and lightly edited, so please be aware there could be typos or other small errors. The Stream is working toward a transcription service that does fast, accurate, and reliable work; thank you in advance for your patience!

00:00:01
You know, there are times when we are all called to the front lines of battle. The Lord will give us a prayer assignment or a charge that we’re supposed to stand in the gap for someone in our family or someone in the church or perhaps even the nation. And if you’ve ever been called on an assignment like this, you know that a lot of spiritual warfare can be involved. And there’s often questions as to how do we stand? How do we know that this is an enemy attack or this is really God’s blessing and favor on us in the midst of

00:00:25
it? Well, I want you to join in on a conversation that I had recently with some YouTubers. It was an offline uh Zoom call and we were talking about this very thing. It was some of the whistleblowers who were sharing their own experiences of the cost of being in that place of answering a call. Well, Steven Powell has been a guest on this channel before, and those of you who watched my interview with him are aware that in 2019, he was a main whistleblower who exposed Todd Bentley. And that uh video that he shared, it did

00:00:58
go viral and it resulted in a third-party investigation which deemed Todd unfit for ministry. So, in many respects, uh there was some success to it, but there was a great cost to Stephen. Well, on this last Zoom call that we had, uh, Stephen had his wife Amanda on there, and someone asked her, “How did you weather that time of warfare, of intense scrutiny in your lives?” And her response sparked a conversation that was very enlightening. And I want to share that with you. Now, you may not be a whistleblower, but I

00:01:29
guarantee you, if you’ve ever been uh given an assignment from the Lord and you’ve encountered some kind of push back, the question is, “How do I stand?” And what the Lord was revealing is that there is grace in the midst of warfare. But we also processed what does that look like? Are we ready to face that warfare? Are we clear and free ourselves of anything that the enemy might use against us? Do we have proper prayer support? Have we really been thoroughly prepared for the cost of the charge? Well, I think you’re going to be

00:02:01
very encouraged as you watch uh part of our conversation. I believe the Holy Spirit wants to speak to you and give you some insights of how to stand in the midst of the warfare that you might be experiencing yourself. Because regardless of how the enemy pushes back or the kinds of costs that there is, when we are answering a call and a charge from the Lord, there is grace that is greater. [Music] [Applause] I had a question for Amanda. I wanted to ask when you went when Steven’s going through this is right and I need to I

00:02:46
need to blow the whistle and and right is right and wrong is wrong. you know, he talks a little bit in, you know, sort of vague terms about the fact that it it brought warfare into your family and and all of these things. From your perspective, what was that experience like? Honestly, it was a lot of fear. Um, I’ve never very very few times in my life have I felt the spirit of fear so strong. Um, and feeling all alone cuz we’re going to leaders and and also like I’ve always been supportive of Stephen, but it was it was getting to

00:03:29
the point where no leader would help us. And so I began to question maybe we are religious. maybe, you know, maybe this isn’t something that the questions, the doubt, but at the the pit of my stomach, it was like this is wrong. Like, we have to say something. And he he was very protective. He was really good protective over me and the family. And he was like, because there were times where I’m like, I don’t want to know anything. Uh, I can’t I can’t take it. The stress was it was bad. It was very

00:04:06
bad. Um, and I felt uh that was wisdom from the Lord how he he was like, “I’m not going to share anything. If there’s anything you want to know, I’ll share it.” But then as a wife, I felt bad because he was doing this alone. The only thing I could do was just pray. But when he I when he did speak out, I was very proud of him because when I watched the video, like I just watched it for the first time like oh just a few months ago and I just I thank God that we made it through that season. It was very difficult. Um

00:04:49
actually that was the second time that I had watched the video. The first time I had watched it, when he first released it, I could barely make it through. So, I just saw the first part, but like it just rehashed all those feelings and like fear fear is a liar. Fear is a liar and Satan is a liar. And I’m very thankful that he did speak out. I’m very proud of him. But it was really, really hard as a wife. So my feelings were like it was a the spirit of fear will come over you and in the middle of the night the panic we didn’t

00:05:28
know what anxiety was or panic attacks were. Uh but we did in 2019 because the fear was so strong. You wake up at 2:00 in the morning like maybe I shouldn’t maybe I should just abandon ship. Maybe this is maybe we shouldn’t do this. Yeah. I I had terrible panic attacks. Like it was the the every single night for months. There was nobody there was nobody praying for us. Honestly, I could literally say there was nobody praying for us. It felt like that. It felt like that. I I know there were a few. We

00:06:00
would call our parents and be like, “Hey, this is what’s going on.” But they have no idea. They’re just like, “Oh, you’re in a scuffle with the minister. Okay, we’ll pray for you.” But we’re trying to protect our parents, too. You know, so it’s like cuz you know when you when you’re reaching out and you bear your heart to somebody, we kind of have this unexpected unspoken expectation of how you want someone to react. It’s hard. It’s hard to to reciprocate emotion. A lot of people just don’t understand, you know,

00:06:29
like what what something like that is. I mean, all the implications, the spiritual warfare was unbelievable. lasted for years and the financial uh Steven’s heart has always been toi financially provide and literally we went to nothing. So it was going like great to like it was it was I mean I hear people like we hear people like Heather Shot, you know, like go on there and talk about us podcasters in it for the clicks, the money, whatever. Like it devastated our ministry when we when we did the

00:07:04
exposure in 2019. Like at least half my itinerary itinerary network just went away overnight. At least half. And then within a matter of weeks after the letter was released by the board, COVID hit. So it was two years back to back of just absolute devastation spiritually, mentally, emotionally on our marriage, financially in every way. So people just but but but you know, so many people just don’t they just don’t know, you know, they don’t know unless unless they’ve But it gone through it. I think it came down

00:07:39
to it came down to we we knew what was right. And when you saw the pictures that were sent to us unsolicited, when you saw the text, everything when you saw these broken women, it was like we we’re going to put our ministry on the altar. If it if it goes up in flames, it’s okay because these women’s souls and lives are at stake. and and I now I’m responsible. I’m responsible. If I don’t do anything, I’m just as guilty of these people that hurt these women. So, I was like, we have to do this. And if it costs us

00:08:19
everything, then God’s going to take if God’s in it anyways. He’s going to take care of us. So, Amen. Yes, it was a lot of it was a lot of fear, but clinging to that little faith because God has always provided for us even when it’s like I don’t know how this is going to turn out because it was hard. Yeah, it was it was pretty crazy. Yeah, I’ve only been asked that twice, John Mark, in the last five, six years since everything has happened. like how did you survive or how did you feel cuz I haven’t been asked

00:08:59
that women process things like different than men and we have learned that um I’m Stephen’s an external processor so you’ll see like a book posted on Facebook and I’m like I’ll post a meme this is exactly how I’m feeling here’s a meme anyways but yeah it’s a lot um So check in on the wives. Yeah. Yeah. Don’t forget. Thank you for sharing, Amanda. Really that very powerful. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you for standing fast, you know. Um and protecting. Kudos to you, Stephen, for protecting her that way. Uh I tried my

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best. You know, ultimately it was the Lord. Yeah. You know, I know that’s cliche, but the Lord gave us grace. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have been able to do it. You know, you know, I just want to say one comment because this was something I’ll refer when it’s my turn. But the fire that burned in your heart because I pay attention when there is grace, the Lord’s grace is on something, it’s going to be a holy fire that’s that’s going to compel us to speak. And I pay attention to that because that’s a

00:10:10
marker of his grace that’s there that enables you and empowers you to do that because there is a time where that lifts. and where the fire isn’t there. It’s just a season of time. Um, and that’s you have to walk through that and experience it to understand that. Um, because yeah, when when you have that, you can’t it doesn’t matter. You know, you have to because the Lord is on it. So, um, and even though it’s painful, he will bring you through and there will be fruit because when it’s him that it’s

00:10:42
him. So up until 2019, I was like on I was preaching about the Elijah paradigm for like two years straight. Spirit and power of Elijah, fear of the Lord, all stuff. And then 2019, I found myself saying um if I have to burn my whole ministry to the ground, that’s what I’m going to do uh to to do what’s right here. because that that that is what it took because we had met we had met all these or we had heard about or ran into all these people that had that had uncovered Todd’s sins for like two decades that ultimately it this was my

00:11:18
interpretation of what they did when when it came time to actually sacrifice to do what was right they wouldn’t do it they just dismissed it you know that you come up with their excuses right God will deal with it it’s above my prayer whatever so to me it was very very simple It was like, “Okay, well, if that’s what it’s going to cost to do what’s right, well, that’s what I have to do.” And then, you know, it was brought up again right when I first met you, John, Mark, and Jeff, like on I think that first

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podcast. And then I got to thinking once again, wow, that that’s exactly what Elisha did. Before Elisha could move into the double portion, he had to burn all his oxen and the yoke and everything in order to fully enter. And I’m like, that wow, it really is. It really was the Lord, you know. I I believe that that that was the Lord. And I think that is what he requires of all of us. We have to be willing to take up our crosses. We have to be willing to put it all on the altar. It it’s worth it, you

00:12:15
know, because it it was right. It was for uh it was to protect God’s sheep. It was to pro protect the little ones, you know, and uh it’s a price worth paying. And I and I believe that God has continued to build on that. Not that we were the first or whatever, but God’s continued to build off of each person’s sacrifice that’s been involved in this. And it’s not going to be for nothing. Um God God is doing something powerful here. And I believe it’s going to lead to many multiplied uh little ones being

00:12:47
saved. You know, the one good thing was that you were speaking truth, but the second good thing is you were stepping out of a system that was corrupt to the core. and that Jesus was actually delivering you from something that he never wanted you to be part of in the first place. Amen. Yeah. I mean, I I look back on that and God’s hand was just on us. I mean, I I I’m just amazed that I was in the midst, we were in the midst, me, my wife, my children were in the midst of such evil. And for one, we I I didn’t

00:13:26
really know. I didn’t really perceive there was such deception but too God’s hand was on us and yes it was it was like Amanda was saying the spirit of fear um you know and that fear when it’s demonic it’s operating a lot of times empowered by lies and it’s like you’re saying John Mark the enemy comes and lies to you and says you need this you won’t be able to survive without it if you kick the system too much you know you’re not going to be able to to make it but ultimately you know there’s it’s Like

00:13:56
you’re saying, there’s deliverance. We need to be delivered from dependence on man and be put in a place where we’re fully dependent on God. We didn’t say really anything about advocacy exposure for almost 5 years, you know, and I think we kind of needed that to heal from all those wounds, from all those attacks to get stronger. Yeah. Uh but God has, you know, called us back into it, you know, for this season. I don’t know how long this season will last, but we’re playing a part once again. And I’m

00:14:24
just so thankful. We’re so thankful that we don’t feel as lonely anymore. You know, God’s raised up an army of of of men and women that have, you know, a heart for God and a heart to do what’s right. And that’s just so encouraging. It really is. It’s one of it’s we can literally say for people who might be doing speaking out for the first time, we know how you feel. We’ve been there. It’s scary. The spirit of confusion, it’s real. the spirit of fear. It’s real, but it’s worth it. Like standing for justice and for truth and for souls,

00:15:02
it’s worth it. And we’re here for you. The scripture says, “I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands without reviling, you know, without uh, you know, malice.” and and um he’s like so the you know that worship needs to come from true lives that are have been laid down in surrender and you know we take seriously the scripture that says how can you love God whom you can’t see when you hate your brother whom you can’t see the grace of God there was just so much grace on us you know and if this part’s

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being recorded and it goes out I hope everyone hearing this will know that if God calls you to do something difficult then his his grace, his divine ability and power is going to get you through. Cuz you know, there’s been times in my life where I haven’t done the right thing. There’s been times in my life where, you know, I I did uh pass the ball, but but not on that, you know, on that God really helped me and um you know, he’s continuing to help us and everyone else that has a role to play and it’s powerful. So I think there’s

00:16:10
some bigger lessons that I am looking at even in terms of you know the assignment that’s here um because I had the reason I even brought up about grace and I mentioned this to John Mark before we got on is there is a grace on this because this is of the Lord but we have to know when that window closes and what what I’m looking at because I’ve I’ve been through enough of these seasons um to be begin to recog recognize when that grace lifts because when I when I begin to feel like I have to strive or I have

00:16:44
to look for something to say or or a followup and I can tell, okay, whoa, it’s it’s no longer spiritfueled. Um, it’s becoming flesh fueled and it it’s going to be hard um because I haven’t said it in my last video, but I I do believe that some of these stories that are coming out, we we’re likely not going to see the outcome that we want. we’re not going to see the fullness of the consequences that we want, but I’m not sure that that’s going to be the marker of of success in the end. It’s going to be the heart change, the value

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change uh in the next generation in particular is how are we going to change um our values? What’s more important to us? Wanda, you mentioned uh being able to recognize when the grace lifts and uh that you have experienced that. Um what does that uh can you describe what that’s like? Uh I’m about to throw a $10 word at you. Phenomenologically. Whoa. What does that mean? Uh it is sort of like the act of experiencing something. Um I mean that’s I might not be using it exactly correctly but that’s

00:18:04
what it means in my mind. So uh the like the as you are experiencing these things if you could like walk us through like you walked through what it was like to have the grace lift. Um could you put us in your head for that experience? I go back to what I shared in my last video about being a Trump prophet, being a part of that whole um 2021, 2022 being on Elijah’s dreams. Uh and because there was that was a season of grace where the Lord brought the prophets forward to awaken a sleeping church. That was the

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great there was a grace on it. There was a fire of the prophets really kind of taken front and center. I mean, obviously, we all know a lot of different voices, some different issues there, but I recognized the grace that was there. God was doing something very specific. And when that grace was there, you didn’t have to it. When there’s grace, you don’t have to work at it. There is a flow. There’s a life. There’s purpose in it. People respond to it. You you see God in it. Um, and that was there. But near the end of

00:19:12
2022 for me, it shifted because it wasn’t as easy anymore. It began to be work. There began to be a pressure to perform. I got to keep putting this out. And if you don’t keep updated with the Lord, you can just fall into that rut. And the most important thing is and this is why I even brought up what is the overall purpose because in that season for the prophets uh who were talking about Trump and even the counternarrative of you know being a a constitutional republic and President Trump was actually the

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commander-in-chief and all of this. There was the assumption that the purpose of what God had had shown a lot of people prophetically and there was a lot of overwhelming prophetic intel that that you can’t ignore but there was a lot of presumption in the interpretation as well but the expectation was everybody has to see this and the election overturned. See we had expectations of what that season was for and that’s where we missed it. And when I finally realized, wait a minute, I had to go back to the

00:20:20
Lord because the the life was not there for me anymore. There wasn’t that fire and and it began to be work and began to be repetitive. Um, and so that’s where I knew the Lord was saying, I mean, he had already told me he was going to remove me even from Elijah’s dreams, pull me back, um, and just do some homework. So for me, I that’s what that word grace means. It’s the empowering of the spirit. Do I know what that feels like all the time? Because that there’s that place and recognize and it’s not because

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you’re doing something wrong because that’s the first thing you think. I’m doing something wrong or I have to do something more and you have to be careful because that can be the enemy trying to keep your machine going. And so I and I gave into that for a while. And it was, you know, these voices that were telling me to do things. And so I just had to go back and and the key is you lay it down. You you will you’re willing to just lay it there and say, “Lord, if you’re still really in this, you’re you’re gonna come back and do

00:21:21
it.” I mean, can do we have that kind of faith? I’ve always tried to practice that kind of faith. If this is the Lord, he’s going to keep doing it and and he’ll he’ll come along and breathe on it again. I don’t have to worry that I have to be in this. I mean it it is a test of your own ego especially once you have that place I mean that prominent place because I mean I was up there you know with the prophets on Elijah’s dreams and I it can mess with your head uh in a wrong way and you have to just

00:21:55
be willing to go low all the time and say I don’t have to be a voice here because the Lord doesn’t have to I mean he can he can use anybody but I don’t know those are some of the thoughts that come to mind if that’s helpful at all. Yeah. Stephen and Amanda, you you know, you guys mentioned in your experience of, you know, Stephen blowing the whistle on Todd that you felt all the time like you wanted to quit. Um I I guess like I I’m I’m trying to merge these two things that I believe are both true, right? I’m trying to

00:22:35
integrate that into my into my paradigm here. Um, on the one hand, it’s like if there’s a grace for something, there’s like a, you know, Wanda, you described it as a flow, but also we know warfare is a thing. And so did were did you guys feel like you were you had grace from the Lord and were just encountering warfare, but was it like you were confused like maybe this isn’t this isn’t grace or like what what was going on? I would say there was definitely grace on it. You still have that internal struggle, right? You have that

00:23:12
like I really I don’t like this. This is uncomfortable. I don’t like this. I don’t like this. It’s scary and stuff like that. But as soon as we would just be like we’d make a decision, you know, like like, “Okay, we’re going to do this.” As soon as like Stephen was like, “I’m going to speak out.” There was I mean, it was grace. Um, and I think it was also grace to the unsolicited uh just people coming to us left and right. The amount of the amount of sovereign intervention and just dealings of the

00:23:48
Lord in it was undeniable. Like I was left without excuse. I’ve talked with you before, Wanda. I think I talked with you too, John Mark, on the first podcast we did. I had very highlevel prophetic experiences. Uh, you know, that even kicked off before the first witness stepped forward. I mean, I was ministering at Morning Star Moravian Falls. uh about a week before the first victim came to me after a service that I did in rural Pennsylvania. And I was caught up in what I would call a heavenly experience,

00:24:24
some sort of visionary experience. And you know, in this experience, someone walked up to me in a courtroom and shook me really hard by the shoulders, shook me violently and said, “You must start acting more like the Apostle Paul.” And uh I had just been meditating on some of the hard decisions that Paul had to make right with the church of Corinth. The type of like, you know, handing someone over to Satan for the destruction of flesh. I’m like, you know, what did that look like? You know, why would that be necessary? You know,

00:24:55
asking those kinds of questions. Uh but then it just continued. You know, to answer your question, it just continued. the more I said yes, the more I would take a step, there would be other crazy things that, you know, that God would do, like I’m talking real miracles, real signs and wonders. Uh, you know, the Yeah. I mean, God just gave us breakthroughs. Um, I think once I think once you give God your yes, like if once he prints like this is what I have for you, will you do it? And once once you

00:25:28
commit, there’s no doubt about like that’s where the grace just covers you like an umbrella and protects you. So yes, you know, if I could just insert something that you said, uh, Amanda was at least earlier, you said you really felt alone. Um, because in terms of spiritual warfare, because this is a recurring theme I I’ve been through enough, you begin to wonder when you encounter that warfare, is it because I’m on the right track or is it because I’m on the wrong track? Yeah. because both can happen. And

00:25:59
I think you’re what you’re saying, Stephen, is is is it’s good in terms of when when the Lord’s intel and his presence is greater than the warfare. That’s a good indication he’s leading the charge. But I’ve also experienced because that’s what happened then the beginning of 2023 where I began because I had gotten outside of God’s grace that that door had opened to warfare that I didn’t I should I didn’t have to deal with. I shouldn’t have had to deal with. Um, but the key is is having those people praying for you, you know,

00:26:31
because you had mentioned that earlier and that is something I highly recommend for anyone in this kind of space when you have a charge like this. You’ve got to have people, mature believers who are praying and interceding because and not just intercessors, but a local church, okay? People with spiritual authority. That has made a huge difference for me even this last time around. Um, amen. And I’ve also learned that if they if they can’t get you, they will go after your kids. They will go after I I don’t

00:27:01
know how many, especially when I was traveling all last year. I would be great. But then I would get home and literally I mean, crazy things would happen to my kids now. They’re all grown. They have families of their own. But that’s when I alerted my intercessors, cover my kids because the enemy will look for a spot to go in. Absolutely. But when you have that there, you don’t have to live in fear. you know, even that spirit of fear that you spoke to. Um, when you know that you’ve covered your home bases and you

00:27:28
know God’s leading it, then you should have a peace in your heart because that’s what else is that grace. John Mark is when there is a peace in your heart, you have a clear conscience, there is peace that is leading the way, not fear uh or not pressure. Um, and that that takes time before the Lord consistently to make sure that that’s there. Amen. Yeah. about the warfare. Uh some of the warfare was just a result of of what we stepped in. Uh some of it though was it exposed things in my life and in our lives that we had

00:28:01
to deal with. We we found out that uh and I heard this after the fact. I heard a video by I think Robert Henderson or something and he was talking about like the first time he went to Africa. you know, someone, this very old like lady, like this 80-year-old lady that been in like an intercessor her whole life, you know, took him off to the side and said, “We’ve got to pray a prayer, you know, cleansing your your bloodline.” Something along those lines. And she said, “Because you’re about to step into

00:28:28
a room that’s going to have 30 different African nations represented, and if there is anything, if there’s even a crack in your life, even if you know, going back generationally, then there’s going to be a principality, it’s going to come against you.” and uh all hell is going to break loose in your life. And uh I heard that after the fact. Uh but that’s exactly what happened. It you know I believe that when we stepped into that space of warfare and in particular I believe that when Rick Joiner cursed

00:28:57
us, cursed me with his mouth on Facebook Live, I believe that something was released against us. I believe there was a a backlash of a principality that was protecting, you know, people like Todd, you know, and those sins from getting out. Um, and that did bring an extra level of hell, uh, that lasted for years. Uh but God used it all redemptively because it caused us to dig deep and really do the necessary work that we needed to do in cleansing the bloodline, in breaking generational sins and curses and spirits, you know. And

00:29:33
now, uh since we’ve stepped back into, you know, a degree of this warfare, we don’t experience any of those symptoms anymore because we’re just so much more under protection. You know, we have that hedge fully in place now, you know. So God used it all for the good, you know, but but yeah, I tell people all the time, uh, one, don’t enter into this unless you get a word from the Lord. And number two, deal with your stuff. Take that one step further is I’ve seen a pattern what you you have to be careful

00:30:05
what you stand against and and hate because it can come back on you so quickly. I’ve seen it happen so many times. People who say, “I’m never going to be like that. I I hate that.” If you become so fixated on it, it actually becomes an open door in your life. And oftentimes, this is how I got delivered. The things that bother me and other people are often an indicator of something that’s inside of me that is getting triggered by them and I hate it. So, I’ve learned to recognize early on, why does that bother me so much? Lord,

00:30:36
search my heart. Because that is very, very real. what you’re saying is that you better be clear yourself uh when you go after some of this stuff because the enemy will look for holes uh any way he can. So yeah, you you talk about unhealthy codependency in ministry. There was something that kept drawing me to ministers like Todd, you know, to people like that. There were several situations, several ministers I was involved with over the years that I should have never been involved with. Now, I never participated in in some of

00:31:09
those sins that they were involved with, but I kept being drawn to these ministries that were that were not good. And that was because some of the spiritual stuff had to be broken, you know, some of those familiar familiar spirits, you know, had to be broken. So, God uses it, you know, all all for the good. Um but yeah, back to your original question, uh John Mark, um the Lord made it very very clear, you know, and then it was such an overwhelming abundance of just clear revelation and confirmation

00:31:41
from the Lord that that in of itself brings grace, too. When you know that you know that you know you’ve heard from God, [Music] [Applause] [Music]